Mazi Sam Ohunabuwa, renowned pharmacist and a businessman of over three decades, is several things rolled into one. He is also a manager, a leader, an author, a social worker, Lay Minister, all rolled into one.
In this interview, he spoke on why the COVID-19 vaccines recently discovered is God’s intervention to save humanity. He says the clergymen going against vaccinations are putting their congregations, Nigerians in danger.
Ohunabuwa, who said the Igbo presidency come 2023 will show that they are truly part of Nigeria.
As a known name in the pharmaceutical industry, what’s your reaction to the number of vaccines so far produced against coronavirus?
Well, I think we need to thank God for going ahead of us because, if God didn’t go ahead of us we would have been in worse trouble globally. The speed with which these vaccines have been produced is record, it’s never been known in the history of medicine. Traditional vaccines take four to five years or more to produce some even up to 15 years to develop. So to have vaccines under one year, a couple of months is absolutely breathtaking and I say it is God going ahead of us. Because the technology the mRNA (messenger RNA) vaccine therapy that Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, Moderna COVID-19 vaccine that a few companies have developed was ahead of the time. This is the first time of the major application of that technology in vaccine development. So I am excited because today we have a Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, Moderna vaccine, Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine from the UK, there is also the vaccine from Russia and elsewhere. So we are excited that the development is quite sharp and rabid and we thank God for the revelation, for providing us with this knowledge to be able to utilize them to relief the suffering of man. Because, without these vaccines the disruptions on lifestyle, economy would have been much more extensive and global economic downturns and sufferings of humanity would have been worse. So we are grateful to God and to Scientists.
Is a good thing you mentioned God providing humanity with the knowledge to come up with the vaccines. How do you then respond to messages from some church leaders and others in Nigeria asking people to shun the vaccines when they get to Nigeria?
I believe is wrong headed, I believe is lack of understanding of global developments or reading the wrongful interpretation of the Bible or God’s words of what will happen in the future. The truth of the matter is that I do not think that these vaccines have any deleterious intention, spiritual connotations beyond trying to provide arsenals to help the body build anti-bodies and defense mechanism to fight off the coronavirus. I think it is absolutely misguided and I will advise that people do not over philosophise or over spiritualise too many things. When television came, some church leaders said we should not be watching television that it is instrument of the devil. You see, God that created us is revealing His creation to us day by day. That is the mystery of those days, what you do not know you fear and you look for some ways to explain it. I think that this is not right, they are going to be exposing people to unnecessary danger if people listen to them. This proposition even in the United States where I am, I’m shocked to hear people say the same thing, all kinds of conspiracy theories, 666, 777, some say it is to sterilize, put marks on you. I think those are mere conjectures and they do not represent the God that I serve.
Finally, I have always believed that God’s purpose will happen anyway. So if God has said something will happen, if you like fight it till…you cannot stop God’s will from happening. So either way, I believe God has given us the knowledge of vaccination to help to protect and prevent disease. We have used it to fight polio, whooping cough, chicken pox and all kinds of diseases in the past. Maybe if we did not have vaccines we would still be having chicken pox and all those ancient diseases today. So I do not believe them and I encourage every Christian to take the vaccine because, I know when you have the spirit of God in you no man can implant anything because the blood and the spirit in you will counter every force even if it is true that a man is planning to do such a thing. So, all Christians need to do is get closer to God, strengthen themselves spiritually then they can face any obstacle man made or otherwise.
What are your thoughts on the second wave of COVID-19, especially with some Nigerians referring to it as a scam?
Well, my people use to say, the man who cannot hear, when the war comes he will see with his eyes. When you see people dropping, blood gushing out of people bodies you will know that there is war. So I understand in Nigeria especially in Africa where God has been gracious to us, He has not allowed us to see it with the same intensity like the people in America, UK and other parts of the world have seen it. So I understand their level of doubt or cynicism because they look around they don’t see many people afflicted, I mean it is very embarrassing that you walk into a community, a church, a burial ceremony and you find out that you are the only one wearing a mask and nothing happens. But that is what we call taking God’s grace for granted. They are taking God’s grace for granted and God does not like it. God helps you, you are expected to do the minimum. God says obey authorities, the authorities that are advising us are those God says we should obey, it’s in the Bible. I’m sure it’s in the Koran and other religious books, obey your leaders, those appointed to oversee and pray for them. So if you disobey them you are disobeying God because, they have authority to ask you to do what is right. If they ask you to do things that challenge the existence of God or against your religious believe, I will refuse. But this is to help me live, the Bible says I should go to the physician, the Bible says where is the Balm of Gilead, it tells me to run, it says it is the foolish man who sees danger coming and keeps standing, it says a wise person runs away or dodges danger. That is the word of God.
So I encourage Nigerians don’t allow yourself to be a victim, even if it is one person that should die, is it you that should die? Why should you die when it is not your time. So it’s something that is preventable and the prevention is not complicated. Wear mask, use hand sanitizer, maintain social distancing, don’t congregate especially with people you are not living with, even if you are living with your family and all of you have cause to leave everyday, it’s difficult to say separate from them especially if any of them has symptoms. But when you in the public, you don’t know who has it, maybe its incubating, at infectious stage, he doesn’t have the symptoms. Many people have fallen sick of this virus but because of our effective, high level disease, we may not recognize that part of it maybe early symptoms of COVID, we have taken it in our stride.
So, I want to encourage Nigerians to obey government, there is nothing government has said that it is too difficult to obey, don’t use yourself as an example, do not at the end of the day if I had known. I have seen people who said if they had known, especially in a place like America where they were being deceived by divided government views. In Nigeria, we are lucky that our government has been consistent in pursuing, mitigating and preventive measures. There has been no ambiguity, no confusion. I can understand the Americans where the President is saying one thing, the scientists are saying another, Nigeria everybody is saying the same thing. So I encourage every Nigerian not to take this matter lying low because if you die, sorry.
Considering the fact that a Nigerian was instrumental to the vaccines developed by Pfizer, which coincidentally has some links to you, why has it been impossible for the Nigerian pharmaceuticals to develop our own home grown vaccines?
The Bible says whatever a man sows, that is what he will reap, if you don’t sow how are you going to reap? Vaccines are not harvested on the trees, you cannot get it from oil wells, you have to set up laboratories, you have to deploy scientists who have appropriate laboratories, instruments, equipment and who are properly motivated to work. Producing vaccines is not an impossible task because, you will recall that we use to produce yellow fever vaccines in our country. In Yaba, we had a lab way back in the 70s, 80s so it’s not as if it is something we could never do. But go and check out the Yaba laboratory and see whether it is functioning or not. You know, we got to a situation in our country where we just forgot the basic things, we find it easy to import everything including things we have the technology know how and competence for, we abandoned it because of excess oil money. We followed the line of what is called least resistance, which is order and then you receive. So we move away from value addition, so there is no way, we can’t just go and harvest vaccines.
If Nigeria wants to make vaccines then it has to build the appropriate laboratories, employ scientists, deploy equipment, give them the proper incentives and vaccines will be produced. But I don’t think Nigeria is in that mood, why? Because we are in a recession, secondly our philosophy and national focus is not in that area. You won’t believe that for many years the several research institutes that Nigeria built were producing nothing, they were not being properly funded, if you went into their premises they were run down, even the big building were physically run down. The laboratories do not have modern equipment, those that have equipment do not have reagent. All the money they get is to pay salaries and a little overhead. They don’t even have enough money to buy diesel to power their generator where they have them. So it’s a lack of national orientation, we have not focused on developing our national competences, we have not been focused on producing locally, we have been content taking what others have developed, importing what others developed, we have just been doing follow follow, we have never thought it wise to lead in the area of science.
But I thank God that COVID-19 seems to have jerked us up to the reality that we cannot depend on the world for everything, especially important things like medicines and food. You know, the country was shutdown, China shutdown, India shutdown by COVID it was a major problem for Nigeria. We thank God it didn’t last too long, if it lasted for two long by now, we would have had scarcity to medicines especially essential medicines because, we still unfortunately important significant part of our essential medicines.
So I am hoping and praying that our government will take the bull by the horn and ensure that if another virus comes next year or the year after or in five years time that we will have our own vaccines, medications and therapy, these things are doable. Because, outside the country those that are doing them are blacks, they are Nigerians. Is just that we don’t have the right environment, equipment and motivation.
What’s your thoughts on Igbo presidency come 2023 and what criteria should Nigerians consider when choosing the next President?
Well, personally if you ask me, what I am naturally conversant with is dealing with competence. I grew up in the section of the country, the pharmaceutical industry, what we focus on is competence, capacity and capability. I rose from becoming pharmaceutical sales rep to being chairman/CEO of the company not because I was Igbo or from the south. It happens that God gave me the competence and I was able to use those competences to distinguish myself among my colleagues. And I showed leadership, character that allow them to entrust responsibility on me. That is the way it happens. However, it is not translatable same way to our political environment because, nobody is dealing with competency here as much, the considerations are slightly different. Since democracy as you know is by number and as you know, we are still a people that are not very much United, we don’t have common goals, people are always resorting to their ethnic background, state of origin, state of birth. I mean, I was born in Rivers State but Nigerians insist that each time I fill I form I must say I am from Abia State, where my parents came from. I can’t understand it. In America, a child that was born in this country by Nigerian parents becomes an American, if he was born in the UK becomes a British citizen. We leant all these things from them but I don’t know how we are so retrogressive and so backward that we cannot even allow many of these things we enjoy…I mean we send our wives to give birth here and our children become Americans, get American passports and do all kinds of things and yet the people in Nigeria won’t even allow a man who was born in a state to say he is from that state and enjoy the privileges of that state. I don’t understand it, only God can explain it to me because human beings can’t sufficiently make me understand why they are doing it. They have done it perpetually from one generation, one government to another. Nobody is enlightened enough to say let’s jettisoned this very archaic method, if we want to build a nation let’s break down this wall. So since they are raising these rigid walls, it’s therefore natural that a people from a section of the country to say, you have had it, these people have had it, we need to have our own turn. That is why that call for Igbo presidency has currency and has support from me because, left to the Nigerian leadership as they are constituted they may not allow somebody from that area, just as they would probably not allow minorities to have power. Some are telling us this is by population, yes it’s by population but you are only going to chose those you like, those you know. I think we need to build our nation to a point where we will breakdown these walls of rigidity, ethnicity, tribalism all these mundane, moribund… the progressive world has no more space for this. Man being man there will always be biases and group interest but it’s not as brazen as it is in our country.
So given all these vicissitude that the Igbos have suffered from the war which they did not cause, Igbos did not cause any war, war was visited on them because they were living in a country that belongs to them, where they went around doing businesses, working in places where they believe is their homes. Because that is the Igbos mentality, everywhere we go we build homes, marry, give birth, do our businesses. That is how it is everywhere in the world, everywhere in the country. There is no single Nigerian group that loves Nigeria more than the Igbo but once in a while they become the butt of reprisals because one Igbo man sat somewhere and said something, they take vengeance on Igbo people somewhere else. Take the issue of ENDSARS that someone living in Europe said something and then people in Obigbo became victims.
So my belief is that this Igbo presidency will do many things, first it will show that the Igbos are truly part of Nigeria because they feel alienated, that is the truth. Everyday you keep asking yourself is this a forced relationship, you don’t want to accept us okay let us go you won’t let us go, what sort of a situation is this? So our desire is that with the Igbo presidency project, it will be clear that we are bonafide citizens with equal rights and privileges. And who knows, maybe the Igbo who understands the importance of true unity…I hear people say Nigeria’s unity is not negotiable but all the things that they are doing negates that. They just do things that negates unity I don’t understand that incongruent but maybe the Igbo man that understands the beauty of peace will need to create that enabling environment to move around the country and do their businesses. If you move to the farthest part of Borno State, Sokoto, Zamfara, you see the Igbos doing their business. They want a healthy, quiet, peaceful environment to do business and create wealth, who knows if an Igbo man becomes the President he will create that peaceful environment and enabling environment for people to move around. Today, even the natives can’t move anywhere not to talk of visitors or residents. I think we need a unifying force and I think the Igbos provide that unifying force, that cement that unites our country. So there are many reasons for pursuing this case not just for justice, equity and FairPlay but to bring unity and provide the cement. We need people who understand how to build societies, relationships, who know how to deal with differences without allowing them boil over and cause disruptions in the environment. These are the kind of things that helps me to support the Igbo presidency or Igbo extraction or the south East.
Talking of competence, you are competent. Will it be wrong to ask, if asked to run, will you consider?
Why wouldn’t I run? I mean you can’t be desiring a change and you are not willing to make that change, you cannot be desiring sacrifice and you are not willing to make that sacrifice. I mean God has given me great opportunities in the past to lead. I have lead the Nigerian Economic Summit Group, President of Nigeria Employers’ Consultative Association, Chairman of Manufacturers Association of Nigeria, Ikeja, Chairman Nigeria, American Chambers of Commerce. I have lead several pan Nigeria Organisations and groups and today I am President, Pharmaceutical Society of Nigeria. These are pan Nigerian organizations and God has given me the opportunity to do things to help build these organizations and institutions. So, if the mantle falls on me, I am not going to run away because that will mean not being serious. They said you walk according to your talk and I am saying we need to get this country working, united, liberated, teach Nigerians to soar, teach ourselves to take care of this nation, create a nation we will be proud of. We are tired of being a third world, we want to be a first world and it is doable. And so if we are called to contribute or show how that can be done, why will we run away from it?
Was 16 months border closure worth it and you quantify how this impacted the private sector?
Well, from the corner where I am, I have not seen much impact because our businesses did not grow phenomenally, we still saw all kinds of foreign goods and services in the country, we still saw things that were banned in the nation. For me it only promoted smuggling, more under current, under hand activities. Maybe a few businesses prospered like the poultry industry and a few others according to what I heard. But when you add the total benefits it is not that positive, it is not worth it. Because, the truth of the matter is that if you close your door what have you done? You don’t want something to enter but you have also prevented something from going out. So when we closed our door assuming people were doing official importation, we couldn’t import or export through the borders. And a big nation like Nigeria that should dominate West Africa if no where else, we closed our borders but Nigerians were the ones suffering not the small nations. I mean if you close the world today, China, India will suffer because they are the factories and warehouses of the world. So, Nigeria ought to be export driven, Nigeria ought to be supplying goods and services, we have factor endowment, we have some competitive advantages. I know the areas we have deficits/weaknesses like infrastructure, electricity and all of that but again, we are still very much better than many countries in Africa, we are still better despite our low per capita electricity consumption, energy utilization. And since we are better we can supply those who are worse off. It is because we have not understood and has never applied what we keep talking about which is export driven strategy. We are dependent on crude petroleum and crude move through the sea and so we felt it doesn’t matter. If we are shipping crude my road I’m not sure we will want to close the borders. That is myopic understanding of the general way businesses are done, the way economies are built. Nigeria should device a strategy that makes us export oriented, that is the way we are going to break this stranglehold Nigeria has been held by crude petroleum, hydrocarbons. Everyday the warnings, the signs are in the air that one of these days we are going to drink our oil, I hope we will find away to drink it because nobody will be willing to buy it or even take it for free. I hope Nigerians noted that sometimes this year (2020) oil sold below zero. People who had oil were paying tankers owners, warehouses to be able to store their oil. I have never seen it in all my life but it was for me a major warning to Nigeria and other countries that depend on this fossil fuel that the days are over, the days of reckoning are about to come and Nigeria will get to a point it cannot sell its oil. For us now we need to diversify our economy and take our economy away from oil. I know that in some components of our GDP some diversification has taken but in terms of foreign exchange earnings, we have not diversified we are still on a mono culture of crude petroleum. We need to have an export orientation and let Nigeria begin to export everything exportable. Luckily, there is nothing we cannot export from Nigeria. God has open for us ECOWAS we are not using it well, there is now African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA) agreement, Nigeria was reluctant to sign and that is because we are not in a state of preparedness and so we were afraid that we are going to be at the receiving end. Why should we be at the receiving end? Is that where God kept us or created us for? We should revised it. We have the people, the willingness and the factor endowment, we have infrastructure deficit but that can be corrected over a short while, again if we understand how we can attract external investment and infrastructure, through a proper PPP models, we can build our roads. Look at what happened in telecommunication, if we were still struggling with NITEL and 500,000 lines for a country of 180 million people where will we be today? But the country let go of that industry and brought the private sector, today Nigeria is not spending money nor giving subsidy to NITEL and yet the sector is moving, the intensity of telecom is growing and related development in ICT is growing because of basic availability of networks of telecommunication. This is what will happen if we do it properly in power and deregulate and let people come and set up power companies.
Geometrics must have set up power almost 15 years trying to get a space to build a plant and operate in Aba profitably but Nigerian government has prevented it with intrigues, bureaucracy and federation arrangement. Geometrics has almost gone into bankruptcy because they owed many banks where they borrowed money, until I hear only recently that that man made problems is being resolved. This is the way to go, we give Aba to Geometrics, Enugu, Lagos etc to small small groups and they make investments, overnight our energy problems will be resolved. But going on this highfalutin system of national transmission of here to there that breaks up and waste energy all over the place, we will not move forward.
So, we need to change our orientation. There is no problem today that Nigeria is facing that we cannot solve within a short while if we are willing to learn from those with similar problems and solve them. We cannot reinvent the wheel, there is no problem we cannot solve because those problems have been faced by other people, countries and they solved them. Why can’t we take advise from them? Why can’t we see how they have done it and do the same? For me Nigeria has to change its orientation and become technology driven, production driven and then we will regain our economy and become a first world.
The issue of insecurity- insurgency, armed robbery, kidnapping has taken a frightening turn, are you satisfied with steps taken by government so far and what will advise they do differently?
Well, the only person that is satisfied with the way government is doing it must be either a robber, kidnapper, terrorist, hoodlum, those who have free reign to do what they are doing but a normal human being is not. There is no evidence that government is serious, I can’t see the evidence and that is saying it as it is. In my training and background, I give responsibilities to my managers, directors, and I give them KPIs – Key Performance Indicators and I evaluate monthly, quarterly, yearly and if they are not measuring up to those KPIs, the first thing I will do to show my board, the owners of the business that I am serious is to change them and put others with better competence who can do better. So, can anybody explain to me why that the same service chiefs we started this administration with five, six years ago, their terms have ran out, they are not producing any feasible result and somebody is still keeping them and he wants me to say he is doing well. I can’t deceive him and humor him and say he is doing well. I mean, if he had tried new service chiefs, give new equipment, tried everything then we can say you are doing your best, we are seeing it but maybe the problem is beyond us. But even the basic one of creating the appropriate security architecture nobody is seeing it, so why will I say government is doing well? I will be deceiving government and deceiving myself. I hope the government will try and do the minimum. Maybe they are trying but nobody is seeing that because by my training, what we reward is results not efforts. The result is what we measure not effort, that is how many units have you produced per hour, how much sales have you achieved per month, what profits have you made? That is what we use to measure performance.
For security in Nigeria, if we use those, everyone from the leader of the team to the last person have failed us from what we can see. They maybe working hard but we cannot see the result. I believe I don’t have to advise the President and all that because everybody has advised him, the National Assembly has advised him, he doesn’t want to change it so we leave it the way he wants it. Who knows what will make him change them because advise has not helped and I don’t know what will help.
Would you say you’re fulfilled in your field of endeavor and given another opportunity in life, what would you have done differently?
Well, by the grace of God after 33 years in the pharmaceutical industry, 18 years at CEO level, I believe I have done the beat I can, help to grow a multinational when I was given opportunity. I led the management to buy out the company and transform to a local company. First dependent on Pfizer but now it’s independent, producing its own brands, doing its own research, a million size research and development company which within the context of our environment, I believe I have done my beat. In fact, I believe that was why I retired even when my board was worried and asked why should I retire 11 years ago. I believe I had done my beat let other young people with new ideas come on board. I have not completely run away from the industry, I am still related to the industry, I am supporting the industry the best way I can. Now as PSN President, I am also speaking for the industry and advocating for them both for cases of improving environment and ensuring that what they need to work with – additional funding we can push for that, by increasing investment in research and development using the platform of the COVID-19.
Would I have done anything differently? The only thing I would have done differently which I have mentioned in my book published last August, Wired To Lead, is to say especially when we were drawing our agreement for the management buy over, you know the relationship between Pfizer and Neimeth, we were naive, we didn’t understand how this arrangement was structured and we left it at the pleasure of Pfizer to structure those agreements. And we eventually found that each time we come to a negotiating table people always negotiate what is best for themselves. So if you do not know how to negotiate for yourself, sorry. If I had another opportunity I would negotiate better, get better terms and I would not allow myself to go through that experience of labouring so hard and not taking much because the structure was where I was totally dependent on Pfizer. I bought all my products from Pfizer, I paid their prices and they gave me the price to sell my products, I pay royalty for using their brand. You know, my hands were tight all over the place. So if I were better informed I would renegotiate those contracts, maybe the transition would have been easier and smoother for me. That is basically my worry in my experience in the industry.
How do you combine your business schedule with family demands and your religious obligations?
Well, we have 24 hours in a day and I try to make sure that I give account of every hour. I try to get six to seven hours of sleep, the remaining 17, 18 hours I spend doing one thing or the other. I spend either doing business, going to church, speaking as a lay minister when I find the opportunity to minister, participate in community activities because I am a community person. I have always believed that God created you into a community and gave you a responsibility, so in my little community where I come from I still play roles. I use to be Secretary General of my community, President General, I am a patron of a community union, Arochukwu. I am active both in my local church in Lagos and in my village and in the Full Gospel Business Fellowship where I am a Director and Full Gospel as National Coordinator, Strategic Operations, Member of the National Executive Committee, National Director. And in national discuss and national development, you already know my background in that area. Today, I still serve on many boards either as chair or member of the board both for profit and not for profit.
So, I give account of every time. The major thing I do is that I am very well organised, I keep to my diary, I keep to my schedules, I’m self motivated and so I give time to everything. People wonder how I find time for everything, I write and they wonder how I was able to write. I was writing newspaper columns for 2012-2019 every week for BusinessDay and sometimes The Guardian, Vanguard and I did not miss my schedule for one day. How did I do it? When I am in traffic, when I’m in the airplane, waiting lounge, flight is delayed, it’s working time for Sam. When I’m in traffic and people are complaining, I am busy working I utilize my time so effectively. Again, I have a chapter in that book what I call time management, that is what you need to do all the things that needed to be done. God is fair.
How do relax, what’s your favorite sport, do you have a favorite food and where’s your favourite holiday destination?
As far as relaxation is concern, what I do is that I build relaxation into my daily schedule. I use to play golf in my early days of CEO but I got too busy. In fact, one of my younger brothers had to come and carry my golf bag so I am hoping that one day I will get it back from him or he will buy me a new one because I will get to that point where I must respond to golf. The activities I go through in a day are mixed from the mundane to those that are very serious. There are those that task my brain and there are those that are relaxing. I mean if I work all day I might end up in a full gospel meeting, I am singing to God and I am dancing, I can’t find a better way to relax. I mean in the presence of God there is fullness of joy, you guards are low, you are not thinking of business but focusing on God, that in itself is refreshing. From there I get home and I meet my wife and children and we just buddy, bandy together and have fun. I attend events, if you invite me I will come. I socialize, I am a social animal, I mix very frequently, I enjoy healthy conversations and of course I try to do little physical exercise in my house in my little gym. Every morning I do 20 to 30 minutes in the gym and sometimes I take a walk, I do those things because I am a healthcare person and I know the danger of living a sedentary life or all the time work. I build relaxation. One of my favorite places in the airport is the boarding gate, while waiting for flight to be announced I walk there and back to my seat. Instead of using the lift I utilize the staircase except it is more than five story to compensate for lack of time for exercise.
I love Nigerian food, to be honest any day I don’t swallow eba or pounded yam I will dream about it. I do my best not to eat too much but I must eat Nigerian made food. I love stock fish is my best protein.
My holiday spot is the United States, that is where I am now. This country intrigues me. In the midst of COVID-19 people say, why are you coming to the US? I haven’t found a place like America despite the trouble with Trump in recent times, America is still a beautiful place, where you go from one place or the other is as if you are in the same place. Because, they have a common infrastructure development so everywhere look the same. There is a basic status, everybody can buy a house it doesn’t matter what your level, at your lowest level you can buy a house, you can get a car lease. On the road you don’t know the carpenter, the plumber, the Professor. Everybody is living the minimum quality of life, that is what I desire for Nigeria, that is what we should bring to our country. We should have a minimum quality of life that will make every Nigerian feel like being a Nigerian. An American citizen was kidnapped in Nigeria, America sent armed men and women to come and retrieve him. Were we not ashamed that they are kidnapping our people everyday and we are doing nothing?
So I like America and their method of doing things and that is why I worked for an American company Pfizer for many years. So, I’m America centric and I believe I love America and there is much we can do for our country.